Copyright 1995 America Online, Inc. and AOL's Grateful Dead Forum On October 17th, 1995, at 7PM PDT, David Shenk and Steve Silberman sat down with me for the GD Forum's second event in an online 'auditorium.' America Online is touchy about allowing this copyrighted material to be available to the rest of the world, and they asked me to make sure that whenever this file is copied, that the phrase "Copyright 1995 America Online, Inc." is always included. Enjoy, Geoff Gould (sweeney99@aol.com) AOL Grateful Dead Forum sysop ************************************************************* Geoff Gould : Hi there! My name is Geoff Gould, and I'm the coordinator here at AOL's Grateful Dead Forum. We're waiting for David! OK! David Shenk : I'm here! Geoff Gould : Tonight we have David Shenk and Steve Silberman, authors of "Skeleton key," with us. "Skeleton Key: A Dictionary for Deadheads" is 400 pages of lore, history, interviews, and thoughts on the Meaning of It All, from what guitarist Jerry Garcia calls "the Grateful Dead outback." It's a diverse global community that is nourished by the music of the Dead and their shared experiences. Skeleton Key is published by Doubleday/Main Street Books Signed copies of Skeleton Key, by calling Grateful Graphics at 1-800- 321-9578, are $14.95 + freight Steve studied with Beat poet Allen Ginsberg when he was a teenager, wrote his Master's Thesis at UC Berkeley on Neal Cassady, went to first show at Watkins Glen on 7/27/73, and has been a contributor to the Golden Road,as well as a contributor to Dupree's; the new issue features a roundtable discussion with Steve, David Gans, Blair Jackson, and John Dwork. Steve hosts one of the GD conferences on the WELL, and also hosts the Wired conference. He is currently the Editor at Large of HotWired, Wired Magazine's site on the World Wide Web. Dave is a former producer for NPR, has written for SPY, Washington Post, Mother Jones, and SPIN Magazine and is currently a fellow at the Freedom Forum Media Studies Center, writing Geoff Gould : So, let's go! Steve Silberman : Hey folks! David Shenk : Hey there! Steve Silberman : Thanks for coming. Question : hey Steve, do you have any accociation with the dead? Steve Silberman : No, I'm a Deadhead, like you. I'm not an official anything - I'm an independent writer. Question : what did you do to pay tribute to Jerry Garcia when he died? Steve Silberman : I cried for days on end, I thought and wrote a lot, I spoke to the media when asked, and I tried to feel as much as possible my deep gratitude for all the years of joy. David Shenk : I was in vermont. I went up mount hunger and had a long chat with myself about what he had meant to me Question : hey i just wanted to say yours is the best of the many varied books on the Dead. anything else in the works? how many has it sold? David Shenk : Thanks much. We've got 80,000 in print right now and of course, we couldn't be more thrilled, both with the number of readers and the enthusiastic response. Steve Silberman : Thanks for that generous comment. I now feel that wewere very blessed to be able to write it when we did, but I am very sad to see that place we described come to an end. Of course, we're all moving on to other ways we can express what we all learned together in that special sacred place. David Shenk : It was the right book at the right time, it seems, and we were the lucky mediums. Question : Stevie & David!! You're WONDERFUL!!! Thanks for the book... Any plans soon for releasing an "updated" edition? David Shenk : Gosh, thanks. We don't have any plans for an update right now - I think the first edition is still pretty fresh. My hope is that the book spurs future editions of other people's books. Steve Silberman : If you want to read more thoughts of mine on the Dead, check out the new Dupree's - and when the special tribute to Garcia comes out, look there too. That will be in a few months. I'm writing it now. David Shenk : And if you want to read more of my stuff, which is mostly not Dead related, you can go to my website: http://condor.depaul.edu/ethics/shenk.html Question : What are your feeling on the future of our scene? Steve Silberman : As far as the future of the scene goes: even *the band* does not know what they will do. They are still feeling their way through it. What we all must do is figure out what we value most about the community of Deadheads, and then express those qualities - generosity, respect for life- joy - in other ways. David Shenk : In a sense, it's now our turn to make the music and share the ideas and give back to the community. Question : did you ever tour with the Dead? Steve Silberman : Yes, I went on tour several times. My last tour was fall '94. Geoff Gould : How did you decide to write Skeleton Key? Steve Silberman : The book was actually David's idea - thanks, pal! - but he asked me to help him, and we both ended up giving all we had to making it as deep as the subject deserved. David Shenk : It seemed to me - and to everyone we talked to about it - like something that should have been done a long time ago. We also happened on a pretty complementary collaboration. Question : Where did the sections on obscure languages- IE- the St. Paul's School vocab-- come from? Were these write-in entries or did you have personal experience with them? Steve Silberman : That's a funny question, with TOO long an answer, but basically, Charlie Wilkins, to whom the book is dedicated, knew those folks, and I felt it was a very vital, cool, hilarious DEEP Deadhead vein of jargon. I loved it, and the folks who invented it. David Shenk : In general, we talked to a lot lot lot of people about the language, and we tried to bring out the freshest, funniest, deepest ones without being redundant. There's a lot that didn't get in, we know, and that we leave up to all the other great minds out there Question : Steve, Have you spent much time in the area around Denver where Neal used to hang out, If so, met anyone we should know about? Steve Silberman : I've met a lot of Neal's friends, and his son, who is a nice guy. I'd suggest that everyone here read Kerouac's On the Road for a taste of who Cassady was before he drove the Pranksters' bus. I *do* know a lot of Neal tales - read my essay in the book Goin' Down the Road - Question : Besides Cornell 77 or Veneta 72, what are your favorite live Dead tapes? Steve Silberman : The "Formerly the Warlocks" Dark Star breakout in '89 *many shows* in '89 - are amazing. David Shenk : Stanley Theatre '79, Dane County '73, Orpheum '76. Steve Silberman : Also, 2/13/70, obviously. David Shenk : I was at an Augusta '84 with Cold Rain and Morning Dew that I like to listen to. Steve Silberman : 12/26/79 is great David Shenk : Of course 2.13.70. Of course. David Shenk : I think there are one or two other shows that were nice. Steve Silberman : I wish I had my list with me! Geoff Gould : crazy tapers! Steve Silberman : I think Dave was kidding David Shenk : What did they do - about 150 shows? Steve Silberman : DAVE...heh David Shenk : They were a good little band... Question : Steve, Hey Now! Its Rich from Maine:) Jut a real quick question; Alot of the old AOL people are jumping ship to the "Route 66 of the info highway" The WELL. How is that different from this forum?and are you trying to bring some of that uniqueness here? Geoff Gould : good question! Steve Silberman : The WELL is wonderful! It's a lot lower-tech than AOL - it's text driven (eek!), but the community can't be beat, and the depth of scholarship there is very admirable. Email info@well.com to find out. Hi Rich! The online community has been a big help in the mourning process. Think of how lonely we all would have been without it, sigh... David Shenk : I saw some absolutely beautiful things online right after Jerry died. Poetry. Steve Silberman : As far as the online response to Jerry's death goes, David Gans has compiled a book that will be published in November, called Not Fade Away. I wrote the intro. Geoff Gould : We'll have David here as a guest then. Question : Hi Steve, thanks for taking the time to be here...do you feel Dupree's mag. will continue? Steve Silberman : There is a new Dupree's out right now, and there wil be an amazing tribute in a couple of months with writing by Ram Dass, Hornsby, Crosby, Blair Jackson, Gans, me, John Dwork, and many others. Question : how did you guys break into the writing biz? David Shenk : I just sort of went for it - started writing about stuff that interested me - politics, music, etc. It's a lot of tenacity and quite a bit of luck to be able to keep doing it. But it's a great honor to be able to live by your wits. Steve Silberman : I was a student of Allen Ginsberg's when I was 19, I wrote poetry for a long time, and I've always loved books. I think writing can be very healing, whether you're published or not. Question : What do you think it was about Garcia that inspired so many? David Shenk : My personal take on that is that he had a way of conveying the fragility of life that somehow really nailed it. When he sang sad songs, he had a fire and a fragment of pure joy in his singing. When he sand happy, joyful tunes, there was always that mystery and sadness behind the words. Steve Silberman : He was *so* committed to his ART. He played over 100 nights a year for 30 years! Also, his guitar was so much a part of him, it became a means of direct expression of his soul, and he cultivated a band & an audience that could listen to him, and let him explore to the limits of his ability. David Shenk : He was so darned curious. What an inspirational mind - always looking to the next idea. I've tried to follow that example in my writing, my music, my relationships, my life. Steve Silberman : Me too. Geoff Gould : Why has the Deadhead community taken so readily to the online world? Steve Silberman : Deadheads are perfect for cyberspace, because we were always waiting until the next show, when we could see each other again, and share our feelings and insights. The online world gave us a place to come together that didn't depend on shows. David Shenk : Also: in general, cyberspace and the proliferation of information alway caters to "microcultures." It's a great thing for Deadheads and tibetan linguists, but it's not such a great thing for a big country like the U.S. It means we share a lot less information overall. Steve Silberman : How so, Dave? Geoff Gould : yeah? David Shenk : Well, with information proliferation, the natural tendency is to create new boundaries around smaller piece of information. So we spend more time in our smaller cultures, and we give up time that we might have spent paying attention to big America stuff. Steve Silberman : I think online communication is VERY important for marginalized communities, like young gay folks and Deadheads, so that they can directly address one another without having to break through to mainstream media. David Shenk : I'm not disagreeing with that at ALL. It's a god send to marginilized communities. It's superb for them Question : does skeleton key have any reference to the MIKEL news letters of the early 80's,which truly,were a great gift from MIKEL to the scene at the time? David Shenk : Yes they do. Under "Mikel," page 192. Steve Silberman : They were great! Geoff Gould : Do you feel the book has taken on an added significance since the Dead as we knew it is over? Steve Silberman : Yes, I do, only because it would not be possible to write it now. We were able to go to shows, and now, many of the memories would be clouded with nostalgia. David Shenk : We sure were lucky to put in the time and effort when we did, so it could be all ready for all the folks who are looking for information and answers now. Geoff Gould : What books should Deadheads check out? Steve Silberman : There's a reading list at the back of Skeleton Key - check that out - but if you read Kerouac's books, and Tom Wolfe's The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, that's a good start. Geoff Gould : What music are you listening to now? Other groups, other kinds of music? Steve Silberman : I *love* Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, Ralph Towner - lots of jazz - and Phish JAM. David Shenk : I listen to a lot of Keith Jarrett right now, and Tom Waits and my friend Lisa Loeb, and on and on. I write to Keith Jarrett's solo stuff and to old Dead tapes all day long. Steve Silberman : I've always loved David Crosby's music too, and he's about to start another tour, yay! and Hornsby. I've been listening to Hundred Year Hall a lot lately. David Shenk : Oh yeah - definitely Croz. If I Could Only Remember My Name---whoah. Steve Silberman : There's a new Henry Kaiser record coming out, his tribute to Jerry, which should be cool. And there's a good record out now delineating the SOURCES of Dead covers: The Music Never Stopped. Question : what is next for you guy's ? Steve Silberman : I'm writing my Garcia tribute for Dupree's, and working at HotWired: http://www.hotwired.com/. I also have my own Web page up at http://www.levity.com/digaland/index.html David Shenk : I have a fellowship to write a book on the Information Glut and how it effects us emotionally, socially and politically. I also write a regular column for SPY which people can check out in print form or on the web: http://condor.depaul.edu/ethics/shenk.html Question : whats your favorite time period of the band? and why? Steve Silberman : I love '69, '70, '72, '75, '77, '79, '80, '85, and '89 best. Go listen to find out why . David Shenk : I'm a 73 guy. What a loose time that was. Of course, 74 ain't bad. And I like 72 and 77, with honorable mentions to 69, 70, 76, 81 and 84. Geoff Gould : Any speculation on the next Dick's Picks? Steve Silberman : [looking into crystal ball] - it will be a '77 show from May, with a KILLER Wharf Rat into Terrapin. Dig THAT! Geoff Gould : Before we wrap, any closing thoughts? Steve Silberman : Yes, I'd like to wish everyone well. I know this has been a really, really, really hard time - be good to each other, and use this time, and the sadness, to appreciate the gift of life. To honor Jerry, do you own art or music with all your heart. David Shenk : What an amazing privilege it has been to be a quasi- representative of such an amazing group of people at such a difficult time. I am prouder than ever to be a part of this community. Thanks Geoff Gould : I want to thank these guys; Let's give them a big round of applause! Party in the Rose Garden! Steve Silberman : Thanks! And remember: the Dead were pointing toward something that does not die. David Shenk : to everyone for all their kind words for the book. And let's keep the CONVERSATION alive. Steve Silberman : Thanks, everyone. David Shenk : Thanks all. Copyright 1995 America Online, Inc. and AOL's Grateful Dead Forum